Thursday, 23 October 2014

Post Script - Another Implosion at IWWB ;(

Just as sure as the sun rises and sets, or that Apple will be rolling out i-devices and updates on a yearly schedule, you can be sure that Mike Vinson and his IWWB cult group will be putting people out of the fellowship on a regular basis. The infractions that lead to disfellowshipping may be minor differences of doctrine, or they may involve Father Mike coming into a new revelation that takes everyone a while to adjust. Who knows what the next catalyst will be? 

Whatever the case, putting people out of the fellowship and shunning the outcasts as "lepers" and "rebels" who are to be avoided at all costs is a trademark of cult groups, and IWWB is certainly no exception. 

In the most recent case (which has involved 4-5 people being expunged from the group), it apparently all centres around some individuals asserting that they are following Jesus, and not the IWWB elders. From what I understand, Father Mike and his royal jester Bitch Mitch Kuhn were none too happy about this. 

After all, if IWWB are THE body (emphasis on the definitive article, "the"), as Mike and his merry men assert, then of course it follows that one must submit to the elders to be in communion with Christ. How dare someone say that they can follow Jesus apart from the mechanism of IWWB? Talk about arrogance!

This underlying doctrine has been at work in the IWWB for a number of years, with Mike Vinson outing his family members live on bible studies a few years ago, declaring them "not a part of the body anymore." 

Here are Mike's exact words:
My son told me: "Dad it seems like you're just looking for an excuse to kick people out?" HE'S NEVER THERE! HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON! From his point of view, yeah OK, there goes brother so and so and so and so y'know, people that he knows, they're gone. He has no idea because he's not part of the body anymore...
Mike made this statement ("not part of the body...") because Mike's son refused to get in on the IWWB studies. So in Mike's mind, no IWWB = no relationship with Christ. I knew back when I heard this that this was Mike's train of thought but at that time, Mike refused to come out and state such a thing in an overtly black and white manner. 

On the same note, I received an email from Mike (going back a few years now) when I had queried his use of the phrase "elders" when he (Mike) was justifying his doctrine of days, months, times and years to me. In a nutshell, his argument was "I and the elders all agree, so that settles the matter."

I inquired as to who these supposed "elders" were, and who had appointed them, and on what basis were they considered as such? Here is Mike's reply to that, which is extremely telling:
You ask about "the elders of the body of Christ?" No I have never laid hands on any one and pronounced them an elder. The holy spirit made all the apostles elders with no such recorded ceremony. So it is today.
Note Mike's reply? I actually never asked about the elders "of the body of Christ," merely of the IWWB fellowship. Mike obviously thought they were one and the same! He also implies he has nothing to do with appointing titles or conferring position/rank but then almost straight away, Daddy Vinson lets slip that these "elders" are they who busy themselves with the work of Mike's IWWB fellowship group:
Those who take time for one another, and minister to the needs of the body, and are always there at the conferences, and on the Skype studies, and phone conferences, are all of one mind. 
Those are Mike's own words about who qualifies for an elder. Note that you've got to be seen at: "conferences," and "Skype studies."

Mike then went on to discredit those who had attempted to discuss his questionable doctrine of days:
It is those who never have time for such things who have decided that the people who are able to resist the pressures of societies decrees are "weak in the faith", have "gone back to your old World Wide Church ways" and are "not able to eat the meat of keeping holidays and birthdays with our families." Those are the phrases and reasons I have been given by the very people who are campaigning for becoming entangled again with the yoke of bondage of the weak and beggarly elements of this world. 
While some of our dissident brothers have stood up to the ridicule they have received by standing firm on 1Timothy 4:10, they cannot do the same for the ridicule they get for standing firm on Galatians 4:10...
Mike closed his reply to me on the matter by basically telling me that whenever he was ready to name and shame these "dissident brothers," I'd better be ready to set my holy-ghost phaser to "shun:"
You will soon be told who are those who "obey not our word..." and then you can "note that man and have no company with him" (2 Thess 3:14)
This is all essentially the premise and foundation of the most recent goings on at club Vinson and IWWB. It's really nothing new. 

It's also worth noting that I received an email (forwarded to me) many moons ago where Mike tried to suggest that he's NEVER made any concrete connection between being a part of IWWB and following Christ. Here are Vinson's words:
Thanks for getting back to me, but I must confess that I am very disappointed to read this:  " [that would be me] believe that IWWB is the only ones that are the remnant of God and all the rest fall into the category of the many called."
____, you know this is not true. Show me where I have ever said such a thing. I have always decried the fact that the WWCG felt that way. I have indeed told you personally that Elijah is all of us, and that we all come to the time that we think we are the only ones, because of circumstances the Lord works in our lives, and because we "live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God". 
But I also told you that the truth is, there are 7,000 people we don't even know exist who are out there serving our Lord. Everyone in this fellowship has heard me say that very statement many times. You are one of those who knows that is what I have taught and still teach. It is only those who leave our fellowship who say such things without so much as one single quote to back it up.
Poor Mike has snared himself and again fallen on his own sword. He accuses others of making up things about his fellowship group, when, as demonstrated above (in the video link), it is MIKE HIMSELF who makes the connection between IWWB and a real relationship with God. 

Even though these videos, and all of this information has been up for some time, the IWWB faithful are in truth, somewhat slow on the uptake. That's not meant to be a disparaging remark, it's merely my observation. I can't tell you how many foolish and vitriolic messages I have received from the IWWB plebeians accusing me of making the entire thing up, or of taking poor father Mike out of context. It's obvious many of them are in denial, and just don't have any critical thinking skills to speak of. 

One of the members who was given the right foot of fellowship in the coin-slot spent many hours, weeks and months defending Mike to me on FaceBook, when I had the Vike Minson page. Here is a screen-grab from a couple of years back, where "R" implied I was mentally ill (quote: "very troubled mind") for daring to say anything about Master Mike:

R engaged in denial, denial and more denial the longer we spoke on FaceBook. Ironically  he says that: "the very last thing I feel is being ruled over by other people, especially... Mike." Again, the irony; it's palpable. 

Another example of a conversation (with the same brother) via FB message is as follows:

R: You stating that money is sent to IWWB is therefore not true and makes you a liar… thats a fact. 

Vike: R, where have I stated directly, that money is being sent to IWWB? I have simply pointed out your own teachings, that Mike calls charities 'carnal organisations' and that he did say, 'wages are due' and that as an elder, he wanted 'double honour.' 

If you can show me explicitly where I have said, "money is even now being sent to Mike Vinson and IWWB" I will amend it. Let me know? 

Mike said that he was a 'reluctant contributor' to the discussions on wages. But I have audio of him rubber stamping the whole thing, stating the following: "we've cleared ourselves with the scriptures... Does that mean there's no wages for ministers? No!... That's like saying there's nobody worthy of double-honour…" 

R: Word games... that is what you are good at. You have said that money has to be sent to IWWB and not to charity… that never happened… that's all I have to say. 

Vike: Funny! Mike said, very clearly, that one ought not to send their money to a 'carnal organisation.' Do tell, what on earth, apart from the IWWB fellowship, would that statement not include? Where else would one be expected to send their money, if not IWWB? Be honest, Mikes statement gives the presumption that one should send their money his way. Please clarify.

Ironically, (yes, it is, isn't it?) this same brother ("R") was one of the unfortunates recently expunged from the IWWB group. He experienced first-hand the joys of character assassination, biblical word-play and disparaging remarks, along with seeing all of his sincere and "loving" Christian brothers and sisters drop him like a freshly baked turd.  

If you click the link directly above, you can hear (or read) Mike Vinson's diatribe about the recent implosion. He refers to those who have left as "rebels" and "diseased branches." Here are a few choice quotes:
God is purging the rebels that transgress against Him who disregard and disparage His commandments. When “the rebels” have been purged from among us, then we will know the Lord, as He knows us. 
I am witnessing the spiritual healing and restoring to health that has taken place within this body of believers who come through this purging process, and the removing of the unhealthy and diseased branches on the vine that is our Lord Himself.
I have recently been told, “We must be doing something wrong because so many people are leaving the fellowship.” We need to ask ourselves, “Is there any Biblical basis to think that because we have lost several people from our fellowship that we must be doing something wrong?” What do the scriptures reveal about whether we should expect to be losing brothers and sisters from the body of Christ?
The scriptures actually reveal that anyone who is squeamish about losing members of his own family, physical and spiritual, is simply not being equipped by God to be a faithful servant of Jesus Christ. Christ doesn’t hold back when He tells His disciples what they should expect if they really want to follow in His footsteps. This is what He tells us, right up front... 
At this point, Mike then quotes his favourite scripture, "hated of all men" the very same verse father Vinson will roll out at any and every opportunity. Predictable? Yes! It's all quite dramatic and rather ridiculous, but to be expected whenever someone stands up to Mike and his elders. 

On another study, this one titled "How We Are To Keep The Lords House Clean..." Vinson openly comes out and says that the leaders and elders of his little group have been appointed by Jesus himself and to question that system, is to question God/Christ:
That, my brothers and sisters in Christ, is why we had this trial in this body. Your leaders were being “vigilant for the sake of your souls”. and they stopped an heretical doctrine from afflicting the Lord’s body. Anyone who thinks we just took it upon ourselves to abuse a brother is sorely misinformed. Anyone who is speaking of us, your elders, in that way is listening to an insidious and lying spirit which will rob us of our unity and single-mindedness in Christ... We had diligently listened to the voice of the Lord, and had been vigilant for your souls and not allowed heresy to afflict this body. Our sin was a procedural matter, for which we have repented publicly.
The so-called "heretical doctrine" that father Mike put a stop to, was the notion that one can follow Christ apart from the IWWB group. Really, you'd think I was making this up, but no, MIke's cult-leader fantasies continue to push him and his dick-head elders into the realm of hysteria and overt control tactics. You'll also note excess use of the term "your leaders" and "your elders?" Mike just wants to make sure everyone knows he and his trained chimps are in charge. 

You'll also see that Mike gives himself an out for making a mess of the Matthew 18 process he undertook with brother R, by labelling it a sin, but only so far as a: "procedural matter." Yes, how very convenient!

Further on in the study, Mike says his lady-boy elders are not perfect, but that their intentions certainly are! Here is Daddy Vinson once again:
Are any of the elders yet perfected? Of course not! But rest assured that every move they make, even their every mistake, is done because they are attempting to “hold fast the faithful word as they have been taught” by the Word of God... 
At the end of the study, Mike declares his IWWB group is the: "Christ of Christ" and in the video, (at the end) makes a real point about how those who have dared to leave his group will come prostrated on all fours, slobbering back to him in the millennium and seeking forgiveness where apparently, he and his choir boys (who will be endowed with supernatural spiritual bodies) will be able to milk the situation to their own ends, making the dissidents suffer, until father Mike and co. are satisfied. 

Clearly, this fantasy of protracted and drawn out revenge is what drives Pope Vinson. 
So much for "loving your enemies" and "father forgive them for they know not what they do." 

Brother R sent out a mass email shortly after being expunged from the fellowship, a small snippet of which is reposted below. Reading the fulmination of Father Mike, you'd think the guy was caught in the act of something far more sinister, however you have to bear in mind that brother R's grievous sin was to simply state that he is not following the IWWB eldership, but Christ:
It is absolutely mindblowing to me to hear all kinds and types of accusations that there are being made towards us ... your former brothers and sisters ... people who you spent years and years of fellowship with .... by your leaders.
Just listen carefully to that sermon and then think hard for yourselves if it is true what is been said about the people that where kicked out, or left themselves, not wanting to undergo this “loving Matth 18” treatment. Over the years, many came and many went ... many of them did not leave Scripture, they did not leave Christ, and Christ did and does not leave them ... abiding in Christ is something completely different then abiding in IWWB and the ones claiming leadership .... yet .... I get the feeling many seem to think abiding in IWWB = abiding in Christ.
The "accusations" R refers to are the comments made by his royal highness Mike Vinson, in the message linked to above, where Vinson arrogantly declares "God is purging the rebels..." along with lap-dog Mitch's verbal assault (see below) where he refers to R as a swine, and a dog. 

R also had this to say (note - edited to remove names and clean up typo's):
Freedom in Christ is not based on the limitations of “leaders”, “overseers” or any other title they like to give themselves and then say it is God given to them and not to youI have seen these “leaders” in dire need to be led, I have seen these “overseers” in dire need to be overseen, yet, they seem to have a very bad memory and if you dare to bring this up, then they accuse you of having an unforgiving spirit, having a spirit of bitterness, being a lepper and all else they can come up with, trying to kill you with Scripture that is completely irrelavant to the situation. 
Accusing you of not being of one mind when you do not bow to their mind, accusing you of not being easy to entreat, while they forget to apply that Scripture upon themselves, telling you that you are “Korah” and they are “Moses,” or that you are a carnal “Corinthian babe” and they are “Paul,” and if you do nut subdue to those accusations, then you have “leprosy” and need to be removed.
As if that were not enough, R adds yet more:
It is made manifest that those the Lord gives the Spirit of Freedom to are hated by those who are brought back in bondage into yet another church-like system, with “Pope’s” and “Cardinals” where these Pope’s and Cardinals rule over you, with a rod of iron as I understand one of your teachers has explained to you, and also, they implement spiritual inquisitions upon those who do not bow to them, using the Korah argument as a favourite but tell me; did any of the ones that left or were kicked out, did they ever approach you in a way that even remotely justifies using the Korah argument on them? Are you following fact, or fiction? Are you being told Truth, or lies?
Despite putting himself on the same level as God, and labelling his actions the actions of God, ("God is purging the rebels...") Vinson will simultaneously and arrogantly declare that he has "no dominion" over anyone's faith. The hypocrisy and double-speak is truly mind boggling!!!

None of which is really any different to his assertion many years back that the "elders" I asked about were the "elders of the body of Christ." 

Clearly, in Mike's mind, IWWB = body of Christ and IWWB elder = body of Christ elder. I guess that's Vinson logic at play.

Here is a talk Mitch Kuhn delivered where he referred to the recent implosion. You'll note that brother Bitch uses extremely derogatory terms such as "leper," "dogs" and "swine" to paint those who have left in a negative light. You have to wonder what Mitch does with biblical passages where Jesus heals the leper, and converses with him? 

Bizarrely, Mitch just comes out (ah, no pun intended) and states that to speak with a disfellowshipped person is akin to having sex with a pig and shooting your load into said animal. No really, I'm not making this up, it's in the study above. Here is a quote from Mitch's sad and vitriolic "sermon" above:

From approx. 22:30 onwards
We can’t break bread with them… We can’t have someone in our midst that’s going to doubtfully dispute and argue against the discernments and try to spread leaven…  
I did a study a while back called lust and we went through the spiritual applications of it… Sexual immorality is a spiritual thing, we’re supposed to only have relations with our husband Christ, our bride the body…
But when you’ve got false doctrine coming in… going out into the world and sowing your seed into swine… That lust study shows how despicable and how evil those things are, and how much god hates them. We all know how repulsive bestiality, incest and homosexuality are… Hatred and disgust, that’s what god thinks about the spiritual version
So when you have a brother who is not repenting of those things, there’s nothing else to do. You have to put them out!
So take that physical example… and apply it spiritually. And that is why those that are mature the leaders, teachers, elders… get so zealous. They can see how it is just as abominable to commit sexual immorality spiritually (with false doctrines) as it is to do it physically. That’s a really important point, that will help you to understand why the zeal is so strong and why we take these things so seriously. 
It's incredible to observe this kind of bloviated and defamatory rhetoric that puts speaking with a person who holds a differing view on the same level as bestiality but hey, what would I know? These are the elect of God after all, and according to them, this is "loving." Amen? 

Anyone with half a shred of human decency can see this kind of fear-mongering and sad vitriol for what it is.

In conclusion to this whole matter, R now admits that he wasn't as clued in as he first believed he was, when trying to defend Mike online. Hmm, funny that. 
In all seriousness though, it amazes me that some people believe I have put all of this information up as some kind of hateful, anger-driven get-back scheme. 
On the contrary, the information is here as a community service for people, in order to forewarn them of the dangers of this fellowship. Nothing is made up and be assured that father Mike Vinson isn't being taken out of context; those are rather the desperate clutching at straw remarks that Mike's disciples like to imagine and project. 

Lastly, here is a video from a 2012 IWWB conference. The video shows people now branded as "diseased branches" and "swine" but remember, the dreadful sin that earned some of these folks a one-way ticket out of IWWB was their admission that they are following Christ, and not the "leaders" of club Vinson.

Yes, these folks earned their place on the father Vinson "no-fly" list! Embraced and "loved" (I use that word sarcastically, they don't know what love is!) as god's elect one moment, and then ear-marked as heretics, dogs, swine, lepers, rebels and dissidents the next. 

Okay, hopefully from here on in, it really is "over and out." 
Bon Voyage!


  1. attention all lepers... attention all lepers the Vinsonites are throwing all the lepers in the pits now... be on the lookout especially wells without water... this has been a public service unreal he actually says this in his recent talks.

    1. Hi Steve, thanks for the comment. You're right it is "unreal" that he actually comes out and says this in his talks.

      I mean it's one thing to think to yourself: "that guy has spiritual leprosy," and then it's another to tell someone privately, just between the two of you: "you know, such and such has spiritual leprosy, look at that guy!"

      But it's another step AGAIN to publicly get on a study and broadcast to all and sundry that some guy who says he isn't specifically following you, or your group, but rather Jesus, therefore has spiritual leprosy and is a "diseased branch."

      Again, I have to point out that I don't honestly know what Mike and Mitch do with verses in scripture where Jesus heals leprosy or approaches and talks with lepers. Oh I'm sure they have cooked up some bull-shit semantical reach-around, but I'd love to know what!!!

      It's pretty obvious with this latest implosion that Father Mike and club IWWB have well and truly lost their shit. It's so blatantly clear and I don't know how anybody could really defend the group and keep a straight face.

  2. speakung of the "your leaders dont receive saleries" nonesense is bogus deception by mike. just because you don't get a sallery doesn't mean there's not money coming in all the time. where's the accountability for that I wondered that back when I was still with the group.

    1. You got that right Steve. "Bogus deception" is spot on. There absolutely IS money coming in... From what I understand, this giving is secretive and "under the table" and there is no formal disclosure or checks and balances about such things.

      Mike said publicly, on a study that he, as an elder was entitled to "double honour" and then he clarified that by stating this double honour be delivered both "physically and spiritually." Here is the YT video where Mike states this:

      When he was asked about this, he did his best to back-peddle and make out like he'd never asked anyone for money. Here are Mike's words:

      "You, nor anyone else have ever heard me ask for monies for my own personal use. I always contribute to our expenses, and if indeed you have heard me "ask for money directly" for myself , then it was accomplished in the same way the whole nation heard George Zimmerman tell that dispatcher that Trayvon Martin was a black man. It was done by editing a tape to make it say what the lying editors wanted it to say... Am I doing anything different from what Paul did? I think not, and that is the only circumstance under which I have ever "asked for money directly..."

      From what I understand, David Turnbull wanted to have this secretive giving out in the open, with full-disclosure. So he got together with Mitch and put together a dossier called "Funding God's Ministry." IWWB have "cooked" that document but I have it saved if you need it, just holler.

      In that study, (which Mike rubber stamped) Turnbull referred to Mike as God's angel and said that the Lord came to him through Mike, and that IWWB had to "keep the coffers full" and that the best gift for Mike and the elders was: "you give 'em money."

      Here is a YT playlist where you can hear all of this:

      Turnbull (and Mitch!) obviously went way overboard but his intentions were good, I think, in that he wanted to see some checks and balances where all of this was concerned.

      When the backlash from the IWWB-sheeple came, Mike did what he always does which is to play the victim and pass the blame to a third-party, in this case David. David got hung out to dry and all of his "loving" Christian brothers and sisters dropped him in a heartbeat.

      Same old story.

  3. you know any individual gift over $500 is subject to IRS scrutiny and that's just federal who knows about state and/or world. there were multiple wealthy people in the iwwb
    denomination that I know of personally. surely there would be no law breaking going on over at iwwb, according to Mike and Mitch's preaching that would be a sin... Paul says there's to be an accounting list for church things in 1st Timothy 5:9, but now that Mike's new doctrine saysthat Paul was a carnal babe in Christ up until he went to prison, I guess ill have to throw out more whole books of the Bible

    1. Hey Steve, I did not know that, about the $500 gift and the IRS. Interesting!

      Also, I wasn't aware that Daddy Mike now refers to Paul as a "carnal babe in Christ." Wow, where does he make this claim?

  4. oh yes the IRS thing is very true because most churches are incorporated under irs and are able to claim gifts as tax deductions. go under various talk section under Nazarite vow 1&2. he states Paul in Acts took the Nazarite vow and therefore under his doctrine is by definition of carnal babe in Christ and says this multiple times up until he went to prison, whatever his going to prison has to do with anything who knows. I'm using those talks as one of my major templates. he also goes on to say this about the other apostles by implication. in other words Mike vinson is God's apostle on earth and you better get with the program right quick. mike is so blind though says in an answer right now you have to shave your head in Jerusalem at the tent of the meeting and it clearly says Paul shaved his head in chentria(sp?).

    1. Hi Steve, thanks for clearing that up. You're right, Mike does make the claim that Paul was essentially, a "carnal babe in Christ."

      Anyone reading this can check the link here:

      What amazes me in reading that link, is to observe Mike's overt arrogance and bias, and it's obvious he is so thoroughly convinced of his own position that an alternate point of view is never once considered.

      Paul said that he "became all things to all men" so that he might win some over, but Mike says, when Paul kept a feast or a holy day, he was obviously a "carnal babe in Christ."

      Daddy V is just reading his own version of the story.

      Also, Mike says this: "For many years not even the apostle Paul was aware of the depth of the meaning of the statement Christ made to that Samaritan woman, “… Ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father”.

      The simple facts are that Paul never once quotes the gospels, or anything Jesus is said to have taught or done (a miracle, or a saying etc.) Paul went out of his way to say that the gospel he learned was not "from men" but from God.

      This is why the gospels are dated to after Paul's letters, because there is no evidence that they were available to Paul in his time. I think the earliest dated gospel account is around 70AD.

      If Mike believes that Paul read the gospels, or was aware of all of the sayings associated with Jesus, then he's got that wrong too.

      Mike says many times over that he never "goes above that which is written" but by making all of these implications and attempting to read into the subtext of the stories, he is essentially making his own version of the bible, in his image.

      I caught him out doing this a few years back, when he tried to suggest that Jesus knew the disciples before he appointed them, that they "grew up in his area." That is just such a ridiculous thing to say, and he has no basis for that.

      He also tried to allege that Phygellus and Hermongenes "took no others brothers" when they confronted Paul and John. Again, what? He's just reading his own fantasies into the accounts and is clearly "going above" that which is written, and breaking his own commandment.

      There is playlist on my YT account called "Special Knowledge Claims."

      Claiming extra biblical insight is a well-documented cult-leader tactic, and if you click the playlist, you can hear Mike making up his little fantasies and presenting them as supposed truth to his acolytes. It is so ridiculous but, to be expected when you have an obvious cult like IWWB.

      Cheers Steve

    2. I wrote to Mike under an alias a while back, trying to get some answers to his "extra biblical insight." Here is what I said:

      Here is the quote of Mr Vinson's that I have copied from the other brother I mentioned before:

      "Let me say something, ah... The people; Alexander the coppersmith, Demetris, Diotrephes, Phygelus and Hermogenes, y'know people that are named in the New Testament as having turned away from Paul, John - the apostles. They didn't come to John with other brothers, or to Paul with other brothers, they did not follow the scriptures. So don't think they did, because they didn't..."

      My question is about how Mr Vinson can know this? I am unaware of scriptures which detail the events these brothers.
      Can anybody from the body of our Lord provide me with some insight?

      I asked this question on "the body" email list. Of course, none of the dead-heads on that list could answer the question, so a deathly silence ensued.

      I tried again, soon after:

      "I have just sent an email to Mr Vinson about this topic. I trust he has not just made this up but I personally am unaware of how he can say what he has said. I will await his reply to my concerns. If any other brethren have answers, please let this little lamb know that I might understand and thereby grown in the grace of our Lord."

      However, after pressing Mike, he eventually got back to me. Here is father Vinson in all of his intellectual glory with my comments in brackets:

      Thank you for your question. You are right, the scriptures do not say that Alexander did not come to Paul with a brother accusing Paul of sinning against him.

      [NOTE: So Mike admits he's gone above what is written? Not quite, wait for the unpacking of the sub-text that only father Mike is privileged to know!]

      But the fact that Paul's words are preserved as scripture and Alexander is universally marked as a heretic...

      [Universally? You mean, just the once don't you? Nobody else apart from Paul even mentions him. Where is the 2nd witness Mike?]

      ...who withstood Paul's words, which were the words of Christ...

      [so Paul's words, are the same as God's now? Even when he was dealing personally with someone on a one-to-one basis? Really?]

      ...tells any one who trembles at God's word that Alexander withstood the words of Christ in Paul...

      [Implying that I don't "tremble" at God's word?]

      ...Now if Paul had been shown to have sinned against Alexander and the brothers he brought with him then we certainly would not be reading Paul's letters as scripture...

      [Mike uses the "argument from silence." We don't have Alexanders account, so that means he's wrong?]

      If Paul had been approached by brothers he had sinned against and had been shown his sin and had rejected that admonition, he would not have been given the honor of exposing Alexander, Phygellus, Hermogenes, for the detractors they were...

      [It's an "honour" to expose detractors? Really]

      ...So I can say with complete confidence, that these men had not followed the word of God regarding how to handle a brother who had sinned against them

      [Matthew 18 wasn't even written till well after Paul's day but that doesn't stop Mike from imagining everybody in Paul' day knew exactly what to do!]


    3. The very next sentence, Mike disfellowshipped me from the reading list, without a second witness or another brother, and gave me no time to repent as per Matthew 18:

      You have been unsubscribed because this letter is for like minded believers and you and I have had enough exchanges to make it abundantly clear that you and I are not of the same mind. This e-mail letter is not a platform for detractors, and your questions demonstrate that you are not one of us.

      So there you go! Don't ever question Pope Vinson, because he "trembles" at the word and if you do, then you'll be disfellowshipped in a heartbeat.

  5. well bill maybe you didn't listen to talk that Mike says every single person got Matthew 18 treatment all the way. which is laughable because he himself admits to doing this over and over in the past and just recently which he calls a "procedural error". iow... do as I say not as I do.

    1. Hi Steve. I wasn't aware of the "procedural" semantics but I just did an IWWB site search, and there it was on a study titled: "How Are We To Keep the Lords House Clean...?"

      Yes, I was aware of the audio of Mike declaring that every single person in the fellowship got the Matt. 18 treatment "all the way."

      On that same study, he undid himself though because he admitted that he had been "slack" in telling it to the church, which is a crucial part of the process. For a long time, he was disfellowshipping people and never mentioning it publicly.

      He disappears people off the email list for asking questions, and then when he is taken to task about it, he says: "they have never been part of the fellowship, they are just on the mail out list."

      From my angle, the guy seems to be a compulsive liar... He can't keep his story straight because he keeps re-writing it over and over. So much for the supposed "one mind" that he possesses!

      In that study he refers to the idea that one can follow Christ apart from IWWB as a "heretical doctrine."


      Your leaders were being “vigilant for the sake of your souls”. and they stopped an heretical doctrine from afflicting the Lord’s body...

      It appeared to have been resolved. We had diligently listened to the voice of the Lord, and had been vigilant for your souls and not allowed heresy to afflict this body. Our sin was a procedural matter, for which we have repented publicly...

      I also love this next line, where Mike says "hey we're not perfect, but our motives are so don't question us."

      Are any of the elders yet perfected? Of course not! But rest assured that every move they make, even their every mistake, is done because they are attempting to “hold fast the faithful word as they have been taught” by the Word of God and by the multitude of counselors...

  6. don't get me started about the multitude of counselors bit... that was over before it began because he knew you had the numbers going in. what's funny is that he doesn't understand his own doctrine because multitude of counselors is from Proverbs which hesays is for babes in Christ.

    1. Ah yes, the multitude of counsellors fallacy! What a crock that whole thing is...

      Wayne called his dad out on that, and said that if that were really true, and that was how the word of God was meant to be settled, then the council of Nicaea was on the right track.

      The problem is that Mike fosters "group think" and a herd mentality. Nobody is free to independently and critically think because if you do, you'll be seen as outside the so-called "one-mind" of Mike, Mitch, Steve and the other idiot cronies.

    2. Hi again Steve. I found some additional audio of Mike on the weekend which I have posted to SoundCloud.

      Here is Mike pushing for wages. Despite this, he later said (when there was backlash) that he was a "reluctant contributor." Listening to this, I hear very little in terms of reluctance.

      And here is another sound-byte where Mike stresses that the Matthew 18 process he undertook with EVERYONE has been "meticulous." However, he admits at the end he's been slack in "telling it to the church" so I cannot possibly comprehend how he can lay claim to applying Matt. 18 at all. If he's done it behind closed doors, and in secret, then that's not Matt. 18 whatsoever. Again, this guy seems to just lie his way out of any discrepancy. Amazing!


  7. once you get down that lie road it compounds so you have to keep telling more lies and more lies. what shocks me is that he's not even good at lying and the people there just drink the Kool Aid and never seem to point out the obvious contradictions and the things he says. as far as the money issue goes you cannot tell me that there's not shenanigans going on, all these free accommodations and free trips all over the world, have to be turned in on your tax returns. Mike's been doing that with no oversight for years and years now, personally I could care less but he goes on about following the laws of the land and not stealing well not paying your taxes is stealing from the government under his docrine is sin.

    1. Yep exactly man... I too am amazed at the gullibility of the people he now has in his fellowship. Hearts on fire, brains on ice would be a good description. You should see some of the messages I have received over on YouTube from them. One guy calling me "evil" and telling me I am destined to be a disgrace in life, others just talking in circles about how great Mike is, when you try and pin them down on an issue, they ignore you and disappear. Then you get Steve Crook coming on here spouting nonsense and when you try and respond civilly, he disappears too.

      Good observation about the free trips and accommodation, he has been doing that a lot in recent times, jet-setting about to conferences etc.

      Cheers Steve

  8. I was looking at another blog, when I saw a link to this one and I've taken a read through some of the stuff here.
    Have to tell you, it's all the same with these cog leaders cause either you are following them and if you don't or you leave then the devil has you and you are no longer elect of god.

    Why do all these cog leaders act like this? I wonder what has happened that they think they can play with peoples lives. Talk about a power trip. I hope this Vinson guy gets his karma one day.

    1. Hi thanks for the comment. I know this blog is linked from another popular "world-wide" blog called "Silenced." I assume that's where you've come from?

      Yeah, I agree about the antics of these WWCoG ministers, they are pretty much off the chain when it comes to authority and their self-asserted rights to rule over the lives of their so-called "flocks." Vinson is no different to David C. Pack, or Gerald Flurry or any of the other nut-cases.

      In-fact, I looked at some of Vinson's arguments for anti-birthdays a while back and found they had been largely lifted verbatim from the other COG splinter groups. Somehow though, in Mike's mind he has the "truth" (his words, not mine) and these other splinter groups are all wrong.

      Re Karma, I'm sure Mike is getting it now. He seems to have alienated much of his family through his absolute insistence on conformity to his views and doctrines. I know this has driven a wedge in the relationship with at least 2 of his sons but I can't speak to anything more than that, as I don't have first-hand knowledge.

      It's pretty sad if you ask me, to become so puffed up with your own version of reality, that you then go around publicly telling people that your family and friends "hate" you and have turned on you, and are not part of the body of Christ any more. I have caught Vinson out saying these exact things.

  9. I can tell you for a fact that Mike is a miserable human being right now, how could he not be he's destroyed his family and destroyed his relationship with God, and for what "Moses seat"and the praise of men. Mike wanted the praise of yes men so that's exactly what God gave him. I almost feel sorry for him but he's being judged according to his works. as far as the birthdays and whatnot I think Bill had on his site an excerpt of the real reason why he doesn't like days months times is because he's too cheap to buy presents...lolol.

    1. Hey Steve, I often wonder if Mike is really happy. You really think he's miserable? I dunno, maybe he is. He seems to sound quite pleased with himself on the studies, but maybe its just an act.

      I used to also feel sorry for him, and thought that deep down he was a good guy but I no longer think that. When someone continually lies, over and over it just spells "compulsive liar" to me, and I can't fathom how he can rail against his own children over doctrine, and run them down on studies.

      Dallas (I think) told me that Mike was a cheap-skate on presents and you do have to wonder if that's why he's reverted to Herbert's teaching on this.

      Correct about the yes men too. Steve Crook and Tony Cullen are the chief soft-cocks, no way are they going to stand up to Mike and say anything to Daddy Vinson. I'm told Steve has a co-dependent relationship with Sandi, and calls her "Mom" or some such thing. Mitch has a little more back-bone but he is loving his "elder" status too much to damage that.